triangle shape over clouds

Status

Completed

Triangle Capacity

1,000,000 SAT

1.0M SAT / 0.01 BTC

Spaces Available

None

All 3 spaces are filled

Channel Duration

12 months or more

Open at least till: July 30, 2022

Participant Restrictions

As reported in your profile, which updates every hour.

Channels

5 channels

Minimum number of channels

Capacity

2,500,000 SAT

Minimum total channel capacity

Description

This is a Bitcoin Lightning Network liquidity swap, designed to help LN node operators generate both outgoing and incoming liquidity, increase connectivity and decentralization of the network.

Swap ID: 1006 was created on July 30, 2021 by BitCoinMonkey.

What to Do Next?

This Swap is closed for applications. Please find another Swap, and sign in to join or start a new one.


Node A

Channel Opened

Applied 6 months ago and last seen about 22 hours ago.

Has 24,650,000 SAT capacity in 10 channels.

Rank: 6 / Tungsten Node.

A have opened to B

Node B

Channel Opened

amorfati

Rated

Applied 6 months ago and last seen 2 months ago.

Has 16,650,000 SAT capacity in 14 channels.

Rank: 5 / Titanium Node.

B have opened to C

Node C

Channel Opened

RadioSteve

RadioSteve

Rated

Applied 6 months ago and last seen 2 months ago.

Has 5,000,000 SAT capacity in 1 channels.

Rank: 0.

C have opened to A


20 Comments

BitCoinMonkey wrote 6 months ago

Cheers RadioSteve. I'm still quite new to this, is there an etiquette to balancing channels?


RadioSteve

RadioSteve wrote 6 months ago

Hi BitCoinMonkey... good question... I am quite new too ;)


BitCoinMonkey wrote 6 months ago

Ill wait till amorfati has set up their channel. In theory I am sure we could do a circular balance which would balance everyone's channel at the same time. Fees shouldn't be an issue as they are generated within the triangle I think so it shouldn't matter if fees are set or not but I could be wrong. I tried to rebalance another triangle liek this but kept on getting no path found errors which was annoying.


amorfati wrote 6 months ago

Wicked. I'm still at work but I'll get this channel opened as soon as I'm home. Excited about this.


BitCoinMonkey wrote 6 months ago

Nice, I've looked into balancing a little bit more and I think we are supposed to reduce fees temporarily to 0 sat fixed fee and 0 sats/vbyte to reduce fees on the initial balancing. We shouldn't leave the fees at zero for more than a few hours otherwise we end up with a lot of transactions coming through. Do you both want to try that later? Happy take guidance as I'm not sure if what I have said is correct.


RadioSteve

RadioSteve wrote 6 months ago

As far as I understand, there is no initial balancing necessary. The Triangle and Pentagon makes sure that everyone has equal initial outgoing and incoming liquidity from the outset. Please correct me, if I am wrong. Then I would have misunderstood the whole concept.


amorfati wrote 6 months ago

Channel opened. My understanding is similar to RadioSteve. No initial balancing necessary. But open to other ideas!


BitCoinMonkey wrote 6 months ago

I suppose there are two schools of thought. Leave the triangle unbalanced and there is maximum liquidity in one direction only for the triangle. Balance the triangle for minimum fees reducing liquidity in the triangle by 50% but allowing it to initially flow in both directions. I haven't had many transactions at all to know whether I need to weight my balance on certain channels or whether I have channels that tend to flow in one direction so I'm happy either way but I have been trying to balance the majority of my channels because I haven't had many transactions.


BitCoinMonkey wrote 6 months ago

Have you both had any success with transactions flowing through your triangles yet?


amorfati wrote 6 months ago

This is my first successful triangle. The last one was immediately compromised by a node that closed a channel. I have had success with doing a few submarine swaps, which seemed to allow more transactions to flow between those channels. Have you been doing balancing through TH?


BitCoinMonkey wrote 6 months ago

What are submarine swaps? I'm very new to linux so I struggle to get stuff installed. I'm using RTL and need to get Lightning Loop installed to tinker with auto loop and have liquidity managed for me. I've completed another triangle 1M Sat but the others haven't got many other channels (if any). Can't even move 1 sat through the triangle for some reason so I have no hope that it will route anything.


BitCoinMonkey wrote 6 months ago

I've balanced channels through channels with large nodes using RTL and I used some smaller triangles that were more succesful so balance those channels but it costs a lot of sats to keep balancing.


amorfati wrote 6 months ago

A submarine swap is a way to balance a channel and push sats to another side of the channel. Have to count on the other node to cooperate though! Some are opposed to this. So I suppose it involves more trust than an RTL rebalance. From what I’ve gathered it’s better from a fee stand point.

As an example:

Node A opens a channel to Node B for 1mil sats. So the local balance for Node A is 1mil and we want to move 500k to Node B’s side.

A submarine swap involves the following…

Node B sends 500k sats to an on chain Bitcoin address provided by Node A. Node B then creates a lightning invoice for 500k sats and sends the invoice to Node A. Node A sees the 500k sats arrive at their Bitcoin wallet, then pays the lightning invoice for 500k to Node B. The channel balances since 500k sats are moved from Node A’s side to Node B’s side. And Node A received the 500k sats on chain so they are settled up!


amorfati wrote 6 months ago

Come to think of it, if we all agree to this, we can probably balance the channels by sending 500K invoices to one another. And then paying those invoices to balance the channels.
I would send a 500K sat lightning invoice to BitcoinMonkey, once you paid it, our channel would be balanced. RadioSteve would send a 500k sat lighting invoice to me and I would pay them to balance our channel. BitcoinMonkey sends a 500k sat lightning invoice to RadioSteve, RadioSteve pays the invoice to balance that channel.


RadioSteve

RadioSteve wrote 6 months ago

This is the way to do it correctly... https://medium.com/coinmonks/lightning-network-channel-balancing-with-thunderhub-972b41bf9243


RadioSteve

RadioSteve wrote 6 months ago

Also nice is Autoloop... https://lightning.engineering/posts/2020-11-24-autoloop/


amorfati wrote 6 months ago

Thanks I will read up on these. About to run out for a bit but let's keep the discussion going. Are you both on telegram - my handle is @eluxir.


BitCoinMonkey wrote 6 months ago

Yeah auto loop is what I am working on tomorrow once I have installed lightning loop. I've been using RTL which generates the invoice to pay yourself from a channel and have the incoming payment arrive in another channel. If fees are set to zero I would pay myself through the channel I made to amorfati and set the channel that radiosteve made with me as the receiving channel and that would move 500k through the channel. Same as invoicing each other.


BitCoinMonkey wrote 6 months ago

It should then balance everyone's channel in the triangle I meant.


amorfati wrote 6 months ago

do we want to set fees to zero and balance via RTL?


Please sign in to post comments.